Looking for grey Petzl Reverso and 3 biners at Frankenstein

Discussion in 'Lost & Found' started by rs27, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. rs27

    rs27 New Member

    Hey all,
    I left a grey reverso attached to a camp HMS biner, and two smaller BD biners (one purple, the other yellow). This was after climbing in the amphitheater on Wednesday. I might have left them at the top out above Chia or Hobbit Couloir or by the tracks before the trestle (if walking in).
    If you have them, please let me know. I will be in the area till Sunday end of day. You can msg or text 773 949 6492.
    Thanks.
     
  2. nightclimber

    nightclimber Member

    HA HA HA you should have read an old post called "Tradman's booty rules"... Maybe one of the admins can dig it up and repost it!
     
  3. mr-fish

    mr-fish New Member

  4. Larryk

    Larryk Active Member

    Just got around to reading your post nightclimber. Apparently you're some type of clown. If you find somebody's gear, try to get it back to them. End of story. And let's get it straight, there are no rules of booty, just someone's opinion.
     
  5. nightclimber

    nightclimber Member

    Yes it is an opinion, just as you said "there are no rules of booty". That is your opinion. I however think Tradmans Booty Rules are a perfectly valid and just opinion. No body said you LarryK or anyone else is obligated to these rules.
    These "rules" are a guideline to acceptable behavior and a reasonable alternative to expecting others to cover your lazy, careless, or forgetful behavior while climbing. More over they came about after gear, left on a climb after a climbing accident was taken as booty... Clearly an unacceptable act... When I find gear left on a climb and it was clearly abandoned I don't feel even the tiniest twinge of guilt. If there was someone on the route prior to me starting up, and I come across gear that was dropped/left behind I do ask the previous party if they are missing stuff.
    The one time I left gear on a climb I was not able to down climb I went back early, but not at first light. There was a party just racking up. As I approached they noticed the screw I left in the climb. The leader said to his partner " I should run up and grab that screw before the next party gets here". I asked if they minded me soloing up and building a v-thread so I could get my screw back. They asked, how do they know I am not just a booty-hound? I told them the size brand and the markings I put on it. They were very gracious and asked if I wanted to run the ropes up for them so I could lead it and rap off to get my gear. To this day I am greatful to that couple of climbers.
    Many times I repaired fixed anchors, and left rap rings or lockers, only to come back the following winter and find the gear I donated to the greater good of the climbing community gone. This is another type of unacceptable behavior that is not even mentioned in the "booty rules".
    So LarryK it is my opinion that I will keep on doing things the way I always have and you keep hoping people pick up your the shit you were to lazy to persevere after, dropped and didn't look hard enough for, or just plain old forgot on the climb, good luck!
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
  6. rbirk

    rbirk Member

    In my opinion, whatever gear you find and whatever reason it was left, one should make a minimum effort. E.g. posting here that you found it, or leave a note (or gear) at the local climbing shop. Anything else is a thief in my eyes. Simple as that. Doesn't matter if it's $5 nut or a $50000 family heirloom. People do appreciate getting their gear back and we all love happy stories!
     
  7. Knapper

    Knapper New Member

    First off, Trademan's booty rules are nothing more than a justification for hiding behind a-hole behavior. Let's face it, gear cost money and not everyone can easily replace a screw, etc. So the decent thing to do is to make some effort to return it to it's rightful owner. The difference between doing the right thing and the wrong thing is not an opinion, it's a fact. Continuing to perpetuate a-hole booty rules is akin to suggesting we should build a wall between the U.S. and Mexico. There is no rational, no moral ground, and it creates unnecessary friction. If you find something that belong to someone else, make an attempt to return it, if not for them, then to preserve your own integrity.
     
  8. davenass

    davenass New Member

    This is funny . Where do we draw the line . Lets be within reason . A binner , belay device , hat etc . Kiss it good by . Tools ? How the f do you loose a tool ! I see them listed as lost here all the time .
    There is some validity to the booty rules . I couldn't tell you how many screws , binner and other miscellaneous items I've found over the years .
    Too each his own I guess .
    Cheers , Dave N
     
    nightclimber likes this.
  9. Larryk

    Larryk Active Member

    Dave, it's a more than booty rules, guidelines or opinions. The fact that rs27 politely and humbly makes a post and request the return of his gear and nightclimber starts it off with "HA, HA, HA,…" brings into question his character. It seems like he gets off on someone's misfortune.

    And another point, there is a reason why there is a "Lost and Found" section on NEIce. If you find someone's gear, regardless of the circumstances on how they lost it, you post it there. If no one claims it, it's yours to keep.

    Nightclimber, I'm not going to waste my time responding to your elementary school yard realization. Anyone that looks up to Tradman's rules of booty is an idiot. Take up another sport. The climbing community doesn't need people like you.
     
  10. nightclimber

    nightclimber Member

    LarryK, you contradict yourself...

    "Nightclimber, I'm not going to waste my time responding to your elementary school yard realization. Anyone that looks up to Tradman's rules of booty is an idiot. Take up another sport. The climbing community doesn't need people like you".

    I am pretty sure the above is a direct response to my opinion that differs from yours.

    Another thing LarryK, you mention elementary school yard... yet you are the one name calling... I guess this shows your maturity...
    Also you assume incorrectly, that I "get off on someones misfortune". Misfortune and carelessness are completely different things, it would have been unfortunate if rs27 had been hit by falling snow, ice, or a rouge wave and lost his gear. If rs27 was even sure where he left his gear and made an effort to find it and couldn't, that also could be considered unfortunate. However it can be inferred from his not knowing if he dropped it in any number of places that this is a case of careless lazy behavior. I ask you LarryK and any others that care to respond, when you last lost a piece of gear, or left gear on a route to bail out, did you, in a reasonable amount of time, go back to get/ look for the abandoned gear? Or when realized it was lost, did you just expect that you would get it back? Did you try to return as son as possible to look for your lost gear, or retrieve those "bailout pieces"? I know every very time i have left "bailout pieces" I either went back the very next day if rock season, or as soon as conditions improved a little if ice season, and got my shit back. If for what ever reason i couldn't get back the very next day, I consider it a gift to the lucky finder, or the climber who was stronger or more bold than i was.
    Now it is time to comment further on rs27's "humble asking" for his gear back...

    "Hey all,
    I left a grey reverso attached to a camp HMS biner, and two smaller BD biners (one purple, the other yellow). This was after climbing in the amphitheater on Wednesday. I might have left them at the top out above Chia or Hobbit Couloir or by the tracks before the trestle (if walking in).
    If you have them, please let me know. I will be in the area till Sunday end of day. You can msg or text 773 949 6492.
    Thanks."

    Pretty much a short direct way of asking for gear to be returned.... Yet no mention of how it was lost, or any details to make you think some effort was put into finding prior to heading to the evenings lodging. Just basically "Hey, I am not sure where I lost gear, but if you got it, I want it back", and an obligatory "thanks". It is my opinion that this doesn't seem humble.( Again there is that word "opinion") It seem "entitled". Maybe the rural communities of central NH raise there children to be responsible with their valuable gear, and other places teach that if you lose something it is other peoples responsibility to go out of their way to get you back your lost goods... But I digress...
    My Karmic Slate is clean... I have always made some effort to return gear... just because i don't think anyone is obligated to, is my opinion. I think Tradmans Booty Rules are JUST and VALID... If you don't thats fine with me, I don't think a different opinion makes you a clown, idiot, or an asshole... expecting people to be responsible for lost shit does.

    Oh and one more thing LarryK, the climbing community could use MANY MORE PEOPLE LIKE ME, people that take responsibility for their own actions, willing to repair and replace fixed anchors, willing and able to help fellow climbers in need, encourage and mentor climbers new to "the game", act in a courteous way when climbing, people who don't piss on the belay stance and where you set pack down to gear up, people who are open minded, don't trespass to get to questionable access areas, people who care... basically people who are not narcissistic.
     
  11. Larryk

    Larryk Active Member

    At least point this subject needs to die. We both have different opinions. And you have the right to your own opinion. However, you did piss me off on your initial response to rs27 losing some gear and hoping someone found it and would return it to him.

    Additionally, I don't beleive anyone should define any rules on booty. I don't give a shit who you are and how long you have been climbing. I guess it's all up to your own conscious and what you feel is right. No matter how I find gear, I try to return it to the owner. Of course materiality comes into play. I'm not going to worry about one old biner I found, as an example.

    Have a good climbing season nightclimber and be safe.

    I hope someone found your gear rs27 and it was returned to you.
     
  12. Bill Kirby

    Bill Kirby Active Member

    Yawn... This again?

    The booty rules are a tradition. That doesn't mean it's gospel. If you wanna play the game go for it. If not, give everything you find back but don't think you're getting back gear you left. I've bailed off routes one week then found gear the next. I don't think anyone's saying keep gear that's been forgot. On the other hand if you bail off Multi Gully because ain't got the skill I'm keeping your screw and locker.
     
    nightclimber likes this.
  13. rbirk

    rbirk Member

    So if you find a Ferrari on the road, say the owner ran out of gas, would you just steal that too? Claiming the driver didn't have the skills needed to drive that thing?

    How do you know a climber didn't bail because of a non climbing related emergency for example? Tons of reason why one may leave gear.

    Either way, its all theft if you don't even try finding the owner and we could use more good will in the climbing community. Luckily we do have many who do the right thing.
     

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